Sitting Down with Dubai Rapper KAFV

Khaled Fouad, known by his stage name KAFV, is a 27-year-old rapper based in Dubai, UAE. Our Editor-in-Chief Vamika Sinha sat down with him shortly after the release of his new EP Dusk. 

PS: How did you get into hip-hop and what was your trajectory to becoming a rapper?

KAFV: In fifth or sixth grade, I started hearing this guy humming “Cleaning Out My Closet” by Eminem. I don’t know what it was about that “Sorry, mama” chorus that got me so into it. Back then, I didn’t have Internet, so I ended up finding out about the song a year later on some random CD, and I got totally addicted to it. I slowly started getting into other music by Eminem. I liked the fact that he would rhyme in a certain way over a steady beat, it was really attractive to my ear. There was something inherently cool about it. With time, I slowly got into more artists and thought, “Let me try and do this,” just emulate 50 Cent’s “In Da Club” using the same flow and changing up the lyrics, stuff like that. During university, I got deeper into the culture and started understanding how it’s made, what is sampling, etc. Slowly, I started rapping and writing rhymes, then I started to want to do songs. And that’s when I first started writing to a beat. Initially, I would just write raps with no beat or rhythm, it was just about coming up with some cool rhymes. I just got nerdy with it. Later on, I understood that the music is a very important part of it as well, so I started experimenting with that as soon as I finished [studying] chemical engineering. 

I used to listen to a lot of 90s hip-hop, more hardcore stuff. I realized that I loved it so much, not [just] because rap would say things in a certain way, but there’s also something about the rhythm, the beat and the instruments used, how they sample and stuff. It was about how it sounded. At the same time, I was still learning about new artists and experimenting. I was doing everything by myself, making beats, which is a process that has its own flavor, doing the audio engineering, the writing, recording... every aspect has some nice stuff and some shitty stuff about it. I learned it all through YouTube tutorials. 

PS: What artists have been instrumental to you in your creative practice?

KAFV: Initially, it was the main rappers like Eminem and 50 Cent, the kind of stuff you’d used to hear around here. Then I got more into 90s hip-hop, and when I got into production, I realized that to become a better producer you need to listen to other genres. So I listened to electronic, a lot of jazz, just going back to the roots of hip-hop, a lot of soul and funk as well. Then you start understanding that these beats and these rhythms actually started there and how they started that way.

I also read and watched films; there are other ways of expressing yourself. Sometimes, you can get an idea from a certain art form that you can apply in another form. At the end of the day, it’s just trying to articulate some sort of an emotion. I feel that that’s what art is about. I just seek inspiration wherever I can. 

“With anything structured and formulaic, you start to lose the artist’s edge.”

PS: Where do you normally find inspiration and can you describe your process of making a song?

KAFV: Creativity can come from anywhere. I try to be as structured about it as I can but in general, I’m not. I’m a rapper, first and foremost, so a lot of my ideas originate from that aspect. Sometimes I’m just walking down the road and a random line hits my head, which I later develop. Usually, I have a good understanding of which lines can give you good imagery so as soon as I build up on that imagery, I can make the song. Sometimes, I’m just out there watching a pretty movie, I feel a little inspired, certain neurons start firing in your brain and then you just hit the boards and make a beat out of scratch, and then the beat inspires you to write something. It’s important to understand that you can start your creative process at any point. That is true art practice. With anything structured and formulaic, you start to lose the artist’s edge. That’s what people do in the industry, everything is formulaic. They have songwriters, they have producers, they have this and that. Everyone has this job and you churn out shit to make a product. But you lose the spontaneity and the randomness. 

PS: How do you go about building the craft of your lyrics? Do you decide on a specific tone to go for at the beginning, or something of that sort?

KAFV: No, doing something like that, for me, would be formulaic. I mean, I can do that, and that’s only because I’m a bit experienced at this point. I’ve done it so many times that if you tell me “do a tongue-in-cheek” song, I can build something. But it wouldn't be something very creative, I wouldn't even have much fun doing it. If it’s something creative and totally random, it’ll just come and sit in its place. 

PS: One of my favorite things about your music is the sampling of films. It really creates a cinematic atmosphere that I don’t often see. How do you go about picking films for your music?

KAFV: Sampling movies goes way back in hip-hop, and I think the first people who made it popular were the Wu-Tang Clan. They’d throw in martial arts films at the beginning. I remember way back when I was in ninth grade and I was listening to the Wu-Tang, that was something so cool that set them apart for me. At that point, the popular music was Akon, Lil Wayne, Drake was sort of popping up as well. All of that was fine but there was nothing that attracted me as much. Then I’d hear Wu-Tang and their dialogues and sword sounds, clearly some old movie shit, that helped me imagine myself like I’m inside a film, right away. I liked that this way would just set the tone for the song. Ever since then it was always in the back of my mind that if I’d ever try to do a song, that would always be something I would consider. 

I build my music as a sound. Sometimes people listen to music as compositions, they see notes and chords and things like that. If you think in that sort of way, you’ll never think about these external things. For me, I see everything as sounds. Even in my new album [Dusk], I put a lot of sound effects because it colors the music. 

When it comes to picking movies, for example, in my previous album Akshun, there’s a song called Belly Dance. It was an Arabic sample, an Algerian percussion track that I put in. I was talking about a belly dancer so I felt like it was a place where an old Egyptian movie with a belly dancer would sit. So then I just started digging for films. I Googled Egyptian movies from the 50s, 60s, and belly dancers. I’d even write it in Arabic to see what’s there. The process actually took me days. Some people go to their favorite movie, Inception or Avengers whatever, and then use the sounds. They don’t put much effort into it. But I care about it a lot. I like film so every time I watch something interesting, I document it and go read about it. 

PS: Why do you gravitate towards older films? 

KAFV: I wouldn’t say I’m specifically going for something older but it just happens that the cool interesting ones end up being older. The older ones have a specific aesthetic to their audio, it’s all recorded on old equipment, it’s noisy and dusty. I like to add that on top of my sample-based music. I often pick something from an independent movie, some weird one from a country people don’t know much about. But if it’s modern, the sound would be too clean and that doesn’t set the mood. 

PS: Do you think the sounds in older films sound less formulaic?

KAFV: I’d just say they sound more noisy and that’s the aesthetic I’m trying to go for because a lot of my sounds have static in them, as they're sampled from records. But sometimes it’s a movie I’ve seen and I remember I want to take that clip. My girlfriend is very into cinema and is well-versed in independent and avant-garde cinema, so I told her the vibe I’m trying to go for in my album. It took her a few days before she came back to me and suggested a Lithuanian filmmaker called Jonas Mekas. His films are like vlogs from way back. I sampled two of his films, Lost Lost Lost and the other one I forgot the title of but it’s on Mubi. I’ll have to look it up. He has this certain tenderness in his voice which is very tricky for a man to pull off in a cool way. It can often come across as sappy but he does it in a certain way which is tender in a masculine way. I like that. 

PS: What was the significance of designing your Akshun album cover in the style of an old Bollywood film poster?

KAFV: I always knew that Cobras was going to be the first track on Akshun, which had the Indian sample. I wanted something striking for the cover and I always liked how those film posters looked, especially the colors they used, with this pair of heads in the corner, the villain somewhere in the car driving by. Many posters around the world had that kind of style at that time but the Indian ones were especially bright, with more vivid coloring. I did some Googling and I found a guy named Hinesh Jethwani who does Bollywood-style portraits and pictures in India. The guys at his company Hippy.in, actually used to paint the original posters of Bollywood films back in the day. They do it on canvas, it’s not digital, and I have the original 30x30 huge canvas for Akshun’s cover at home. So the cover was shipped to me and it will last a 100 years, it’s paint on cloth, a piece of art. We did about 20 revisions of the cover but I’ve never seen someone as patient as him. I was really satisfied. I asked for something really specific, which I always am about everything and every opinion I have. I wanted my car to be on there, I wanted MF Doom to be on there, very custom-made. The whole process took about a month or month and a half. 

PS: Because you’re a UAE rapper, do you think that choosing films and sampling different languages that are spoken here, does that change the relationship of your art with how it circulates here?

KAFV: I guess if you start sampling more traditional Khaleeji or Emirati stuff, people will pay more attention to you. But to me, that’s a gimmick. I don’t think that’s a true artist’s work where if you start to do it with a certain political intention; it starts to go elsewhere. It stops becoming about your art. If it happens, it happens. But I won’t chase after it. I’ve definitely heard plenty of Khaleeji stuff that I’d love to sample, but that’s only because I actually love them, not because of where they’re from.

PS: So to you, is art separate from politics?

KAFV: Well, no, you can be political in art. Nothing wrong with that. But my idea of my art is that it’s an expression of my self. If I’m feeling political, I’ll do political art. If I’m not, I won’t. 

PS: Do you think that putting these certain languages into your music reflects the UAE that you live in? 

KAFV: Yeah, I definitely feel very international. And that certainly has to do with me growing up in the UAE. I cannot deny that. Even me as a person, it’s like, what accent are you speaking with? It sounds a little Black, there’s a bit of Arabic in it, a bit of Indian sometimes. Even when I speak in Arabic, people ask where are you from? I just seem like a mix, even in my interests. There are strong Arab aspects of me but it’s blended with other stuff.

PS: Why do you choose to rap in English and not Arabic?

KAFV: Good question. I’m not against rapping in Arabic and I keep telling people that if younger guys from the region come up to me and ask me what language to rap in, I’d always recommend to rap in Arabic. There’s much more scope in terms of marketing, creativity, the language itself is extremely rich. You can get very flexible with it. Also, technically speaking, you can do all sorts of different flows with it, stuff like that. And we need that. It’s a good time for it. Anyways, the youth is moving towards that direction already so whether I do it or not, it’s going that way. I always thought it was going to be this way a long time ago. 

I never just sat down and made a decision to rap in English, it’s just what I started doing naturally. With time, I’ve reached a point where I’m pretty comfortable with this and I’ve made significant progress. More recently, I feel like I’ve become a little more competitive in it as well. I can compete with artists from the West with my music. So if I can do that and represent the region here, then why not continue? 

With Latin languages, Italian, Spanish and so on, they’ll sound similar when you do the raps because of how syllables are pronounced, you end up going with specific styles of flowing and rhyming and delivery. But Arabic, Japanese, Mandarin, languages that are from completely different language families, are pronounced totally differently and have different symbols, so you can come up with whole new flows that are so varied. It’s just due to the nature of the language. The way I want to flow at the moment, and the way I want to deliver my verses, the best I can do it in is English. 

PS: So you don’t feel limited by English?

KAFV: I think at some point I will. And then I would probably add more Arabic into it. 

PS: Speaking of representing the region, what does it mean to you to be a UAE rapper?

“I feel like I’m both rooted and detached from here.”

KAFV: What does it mean to me... it’s a cool thing. It’s a very interesting region so I’m glad to be representing it in a way. I definitely wouldn't be the way I am at the moment if I didn’t grow up here. I’m very inspired by what happens around here, that’s always making its way into my raps. In terms of the scene, I’ve had a lot of people who respect my work here. Initially it was slower but nowadays it’s somewhat getting to a point where you can feel like you’re part of a movement. 

It’s a bit of a complex relationship to the place we live in, because of the nature of the place here. So it can feel both like you’re home and at the same time, it’s not your home and it never will be. Even that itself shows up in my music. I feel like I’m both rooted and detached from here. It definitely affects the content of my music. 

PS: And in that way, you do kind of represent the place because that’s the reality of so many people here.

KAFV: Definitely, definitely. I call myself a rapper from Dubai. If I go anywhere international, that’s what I would be saying. This is my home base.

PS: What is the normal reaction of people when they hear you’re a Dubai rapper or a UAE rapper?

KAFV: When they think Dubai, they think glamour and glitz. They immediately think clubs, high-end facilities, luxury, so they think “rapper in Dubai” means you drive a fancy car or you sing with a diamond studded microphone or something like that. 

PS: Right. What do you think about the hip-hop scene here in general?

KAFV: It’s gotten more stable than what it used to be. It was always very turbulent, going up and down, up and down. Sometimes it’s cool, then you have bands disbanding. But recently with everyone having Instagram and the Internet, and plenty of institutions around here pushing for cultural stuff, more space is being given to the scene. It has pretty much entered a stage where it can be recognized in some form. Still, my sound is a little separated from what’s mostly propagated in hip-hop circles in the UAE. 

Another issue is that hip-hop in itself has become such an umbrella term. There’s so many sub-genres, and each sub-genre has a sub-genre. It’s a bit moot at this point and in fact, uninformed, to keep describing hip-hop sounding music as hip-hop. Now you have drill, trap, jungle, and spoken word...all of these are somewhat inspired by hip-hop but it’s unfair to all of them to keep grouping them under the hip-hop label. So if you ask me what the scene for the kind of hip-hop I make is doing, then I’d say there’s not much going on. 

PS: I would speak of hip-hop as perhaps a cultural movement, there’s exhibitions happening about it, like the one at Manarat al Saadiyat, there’s sneaker culture, which are all sort of attributed to that same kind of community. It’s fascinating to see because one wonders, is it all genuine or is it just capitalistic interest and commodifying a culture? I’m thinking about how I was drawn to rap which was resonating with the themes of being othered in society that a lot of rappers talked about. Do you think that’s what people may be drawn to here as well?

KAFV: Yeah, for some, including myself, it resonates. But the tastemakers around here gravitate more towards the luxury lifestyle element of it. And that’s what’s popping in the States, the big shots like Drake and Big Sean. Those guys are promoting lifestyle and urbanized love stories, so people are also going in that direction. I’m honestly indifferent to it. I do incorporate some lifestyle elements in my music, but my lifestyle is very personalized. When I talk about lifestyle in the sense of mainstream hip-hop, it’s more commercialized. It’s more capitalist, more of marketing, advertising. 

PS: In that sense, it’s fair to say that, truthfully, luxury is a part of the lifestyle here, and people are indeed attracted to that aspect. In a similar vein, there’s a lot of big-name rappers that come here to perform, and there’s obviously an audience for them, but sometimes that audience can feel quite exclusive and inaccessible. You need a lot of money or a certain kind of look. Do you think that the UAE can do better in highlighting more grassroots rapping or artistry?

“When I make my music, I want some of it to be played in the club and I want some of it to be played in an exhibition. ”

KAFV: I think it’s going well in terms of grassroots, and there’s lots more space and opportunities now to highlight people with interest in poetry or hip-hop to go showcase their talent at open mics. The other aspect of elitism, the problem is that it’s associated with this place. But there’s a lot more to see here than that. I do think that people are trying to push that there are more cultural items here rather than just that exclusivity. The opportunity is there, but the coverage is not balanced. You can put less money in clubs and more in cultural institutions, anything to do with arts and curation and experimentation. Sharjah’s doing that nicely as compared to Dubai; Abu Dhabi’s somewhere in between. Sharjah’s always very cultural-focused while Dubai is lifestyle-focused. Both can be balanced out. Hip-hop, to me, sits right in the middle. It’s both very cultural and very lifestyle. When I make my music, I want some of it to be played in the club and I want some of it to be played in an exhibition. 

PS: The UAE exports a certain image of lifestyle and has ingested the lifestyle that certain [U.S. American] rappers have propagated with their work. But a lot of music that’s circulated in those U.S. American spaces is homegrown, people listen to each other’s music and the big names are exported. How do you feel about the exporting of gang rap and how that’s affected people in the UAE and their take on listening and making music?

KAFV: Gangster aesthetics, whether it’s movies or rap, have always been regarded as cool to start with. There’s the appeal of being a “boss.” Gang rap has changed over the years. If we’re going to talk about it as consumers, then it can go in bad ways for sure, because people think the guns and all look cool. But people should understand that behind that there’s a lot of violence and injustice and inequality. There’s all sorts of problems with drugs in the community. So I think okay, enjoy the cool aspects of it, but you should also understand what’s behind it. Read into it a bit more. I have found that pharmaceutical rap has caused issues, which promotes the taking of different drugs and controlled substances. That’s caused a lot of issues in lots of places, especially to younger kids and teens, who start hearing about Xanax or cough syrup. They’re more vulnerable and can easily get absorbed into that culture. And pharmaceutical companies won’t care because they’re making sales. So I believe rappers can be responsible towards that. 

PS: How do you feel about Sole DXB, where you performed in 2019?

KAFV: I like that they get some performers you might not usually get to see. They got Nas, Mos Def, Wu-Tang Clan... these are the guys I grew up listening to, they’re legends to me. I was happy to be part of Sole because it was always considered the cool thing to be in, although if I got the offer earlier I would be ten thousand times happier. I’ve gotten a little bit disillusioned with Sole as they became more big-brand with fashion; again, it goes into the lifestyle spectrum.  I don’t mind it though because as an artist I benefit from it personally. A lot of people who like to listen to the kind of music I make come there and they can meet me. 

I performed at the Adidas stand and that was cool. It did affect my popularity. People here do see Sole as the legitimizer of an artist, and for good reason. It’s a big festival. I was happy to do it, at least it promotes my image. Some people don’t take you seriously unless you make big moves like that. Personally, I enjoy making art and putting it out, that’s my main thing in life, more than I enjoy clout or being in Sole DXB. But if that stuff can get me some income and I can get to meet people, then why not?

Artwork by Myriam Louise Taleb